Questions for Dave Mathewson

Dave M, I hope we are able to hear your thoughts on the issues Gordo raised. Thanks in advance for the time to read and respond.

Also, what happened, and when, that allowed two manufacturers to be able to have reference to the AMA Safety Alert in their ads before the alert was issued to the membership? If it's all that important, wouldn't we want the info to the members pronto, and not to the advertizers first? Isn't the AMA, intentionally or not, sending business their way?

I like the idea of the added safety feature, as explosions are BAD, but it seems like there was some under the table info going to someone to allow the manufacturers the time to get the reference in their ads before press. Why would anyone from Muncie allow the info to be given to a manufacturer which could use it to influence a buying decision? I sound like a jerk right now, but do some of EC members own stock in these companies, or what???

Personally, my charger automatically senses the cell count, and I always set the rate a hair below 1C, (I own only one capacity of cell as well...) so I feel confident without the circuits.

Is the EC or Safety Committee leaning towards a rule at this point, or are we going to stick with information sharing to help with the "Lithium Issue"?

Thanks again,
Frank B.

Hi Gordo,
Before I answer your questions I want to make a quick comment on the "Dave Brown loves to watch 3-D" thread. I was there but not in that picture. I asked Dave if he felt at risk standing there during that demo. He didn't. Not that any of that changed his mind but I did ask him to consider that sometimes when we create rules we do it with too broad a brush. He did agree. So as far as that goes I'm glad we went to that event. As for the comments about the "chick" in the picture standing between Dave Brown and Bruce Nelson, there was a wicked whine coming from the gearbox on that model. It bothered her. She doesn't own any stock in AXI. I do know if you pick on her she'll scratch your eyes out! That's my wife.

It'll be tough to answer your questions briefly enough so that they'll be readable here, but we can expand on any issue you care to.

I don't see 3-D being any different than any other flying style that's come along in the last 30 -35 years. Thinking back from the advent of helicopters, to big birds, to ducted fans, to turbines, to RC combat, to 3-D, to li-poly electric it's just new and different. While I suppose some could argue that 3-D is more dangerous than SOME forms of modeling, I don't see it as being any less safe, when flown responsibly, than several other disciplines that we endorse.

I don't think that Dave Brown has done an entirely bad job in his last nine years as president. I have seen a recent change in the way he looks at safety issues. He has a legitimate concern over our liability situation. I think I explained that concern in a private email that ended up here. I'm concerned that sometimes we let our liability concerns drive the Safety Code as opposed to safety issues driving the Safety Code. I'd rather see us work harder to find a reasonable solution to a concern as opposed to banning the style all together. And I think it's important to at least ask input form those that fly the style. The president's opinion shouldn't carry any more weight than any other EC member. In some cases maybe even less since the VP's are supposed to be representing the members in their district. That doesn't mean that a VP doesn't have an obligation to insure the well being of the organization, but in many cases the VP's are closer to the members by virtue of their position. I guess I'd prefer to manage by consensus. The Council as a whole should be setting the direction of the organization.

I'm pretty comfortable with the rules we have in place. That doesn't mean I'll never endorse another. Rules are not always the answer to safety concerns. The real solution is you guys. You're the only ones who can enforce the rules and insure safe activities. If you see something or someone doing something that may jeopardize what you like to do then you have an obligation to do something about it.

The Li-Po Safety Advisory was simply that. A piece to make members aware that this new technology is great but until it improves some, and it will, there are some concerns that our members should be aware of. Any battery manufacturer will tell you that. Visit the FMA Direct Website. As a matter of fact I hear that this advisory will be posted there as Fred Marks thinks the information is important to his customers. As for Dave's article and more rules, some of us think li-poly technology is our future. I'm not interested in any rule that would discourage its safe use.

Sorry this was so long.
Dave Mathewson

Hi Frank,
I believe the safety alert you're talking about in the ad in MA was referring to the original "Safety Alert" issued by the AMA Safety Committee and first printed on page 6 of the July 2003 issue of Model Aviation under "On The Fly". Logistically I don't see how the ads could be referring to the most recent Safety Alert. That effort was initiated at a Safety Committee meeting held at Toledo and wasn't completed until just a few days before the email went out. If you go back and read the alert from the July 2003 issue you'll see how it ties in directly with the other text in the ad.

Knowing Don Lowe I'd bet my last buck he did at least speak with some manufacturers of li-polys just to make sure the comments in the SA were technically correct. I'd say that was appropriate and wise.

It's good that you're comfortable working with li-polys. Obviously you have some understanding of them. The alert is aimed at those who don't.

I haven't heard any talk at the EC level about any rule restricting the use of li-polys. As you know I like the concept of addressing safety issues through education. Exactly what this latest alert is intended to do.
Dave Mathewson

Thanks Dave. I have seem tons of memos and articles about Lithium batteries. Many on line firms will not sell you a Lithium pack (or cell) without first reading and clicking "I Understand" in regards to their safe use. I had not recognized any of them as being "From the AMA" at least officially. Thanks for clearing that up.

Secondly, after reading your post here. I noticed your reference to finding information shared in a "private e-mail" here at Pro Bro. I was not clear in my intentions when e-mailing you to begin with. My interest was to find out who you were and talk to the Bros about you. We had the conversation you had with Billy to go on, and that was it. Billy had a good feeling about you, and we (I and a few others) wanted to hear some facts. I could have, and should have, been more clear with my intentions, or simply asked to quote you. You have my apology for doing neither.

Lastly, I'm sure that the AMA has a cut off date for any candidate toseek nomination for office. When is that, and have you made any firm decision at this point?
Thanks,
Frank B.

Please leave me out of the "Lipo Thing". My only thoughts are: I am responsible for what I use. The manufacturers are responsible for what they sell. If they sell a quality (but potentially dangerous) product, and I use it in a responsible manner, there shouldn't be a problem. I know the AMA will disagree if Lipo accidents start becoming more and more prevalent, and they can't be enthusiastic about paying claims brought about by Lipo fires. They can't be certain every user is responsible.

However, the general public does not seem intimidated by the quiet(except for Sloan), non-threatening electrics. This opens up a lot of new flying sites not under the control of the AMA. Already, I'd say 95% of my lipo use is not done at an AMA field. I fly electrics at a school yard and in a public park far more often than I ever do at a club field. So if the AMA decides they are not Lipo enthusiastic, I can still enjoy myself for the most part.

I'm not sure any of that makes any sense. And I'm not sure I agree with the danger assessment. Out of all the people I know who use Lipos, and of all the charge cycles we collectively have between us, I don't know of anybody who has ever even had a pack swell, much less burn. Agreed, when they DO burn, it makes headlines.

I imagine gasoline was considered "highly dangerous" at first (well, it still is) but look at the ease at which even kids and housewives handle it today. They are used to using it. Ever so often you read of a horrible accident, but my homeowners and auto insurance still cover me. Yes, they still cover me even though I handle a dangerous and even explosive substance almost daily. Not sure what the impact on my rates would be if gasoline was removed from the equation.

Well, enough of that.
Glad to see you here, Dave. I wish I knew some answers, but I am totally myopic and can only see it from my point of view.

Take care.

Chuck,
Your thoughts are not unreasonable. But, the Safety Alert was issued as an FYI to hopefully make our members aware that there are special considerations when working with this technology as opposed to what has been the norm for the last 20 or so years. There must be something to it if most manufacturers are trying to raise the awareness of their customers, too. Even at the NEAT Fair last year, arguably the largest E Fly In in the US, with about 300 registered pilots and thousands of spectators in 2003, there were signs on the flightline saying, "No unattended li-po charging". Tom Hunt and Bob Aberle run the NEAT Fair, both recognized experts in E Flight.

Insurance concerns weren't really a driving force here. Our FT&V policy is almost kind of "token". Our maximum exposure is only $1,000 per incident less a $100.00 deductible to the member. We only had a handful of fire claims last year (6 I think- and I don't know if any were related to li-po use) but there were several times that of reported li-po incidents. Homeowners and auto insurance cover the majority of claims here. So since we're bulk mailing notices to all those with no or bounced email addresses the cost of the project probably is close to or greater than the premium for the policy. It's really just a heads-up that may save somebody from an unfortunate incident.

The fact that electric flight opens new doors for flying sites is not lost on us. I wrote in another post that this is our future and we should embrace it. The issue of what impact this will have on AMA flying sites is a discussion for another time, but I don't think it will have, or has to have, the negative impact some others do.

The Safety Alert was really not aimed at those that have practical experience using li-pos. It was aimed at those that don't. My bet is that you've never seen anyone have a problem with li-pos because the guys you hang around with understand how they need to be treated. Not everybody has that understanding.
Dave Mathewson

Dave, I'm also glad to hear there is a profile on your harem. The Sig Fazer still commands a bit of respect on the flightline, that's pretty amazing considering it's age. I would, however, not recommend you fly a Sledge, unless you are ready to buy one. The same goes for the Extreme Flight Edge, I'm told. You will never look at the Fazer the same way again. I thought I knew a good profile from a bad one, until I flew the Jeff Williams Sledge. I was immediately humbled and inspired.

Although I had the same "knee jerk" response as all, looking back I appreciate the Safety Notice, and hope that the information is carefully considered, and Lithium dangers subside because of the increased awareness. If the membership can make this happen, this is a perfect demonstration that information is a better weapon than overnight rule changes. In our local club, we have an engineer that is really well informed about the various batteries, I'll ask him to give a presentation, at our next meeting here, regarding safely using all of them.

As Dave said, and so have many others, we as responsible pilots must help the uninitiated learn things that have an impact on the hobby. Don't walk past the bone head tail touching on top of the baby stroller, don't let the bone head "crank it up a bit" while charging his LiPos (and then go for lunch), and do not walk past the bonehead shaking his finger at another pilot for no reason. We should all be comfortable keeping OUR hobby, and OUR fields safe and courteous.