[Gordo]

Ok, first, as the author of this thread let me ask a favor. I asked Mr. Mathewson to come into the forum and help us get to know him and see where he stands. It's very rare to get anyone in his position to do that for what I think are very obvious reasons. Just go over to RCU and look at the AMA forum and you'll know what I mean. So BE NICE!! I assured him we could act like gentleman (well, in a ProBro kind of way), and that I would take care of any rudeness personally. :evil: (I know you're scared now)

Welcome Dave. Basically I would like to know how you feel about 3D as a disipline within the big picture of the RC hobby. Do you feel 3D is on par with combat, pylon, or Giants? And do you feel that 3D in general is dangerous, or a problem in any way? (I know there are individuals that are, but that's true with everything)

Can you tell us how your leadership as President will differ from Mr Brown's?

We aren't a bunch of outlaws who want to throw out all the rules (though we kinda like that image!!!) but we are free thinking, do it if it feels good and no one gets hurt kinda guys. Do you agree that the rules in place are adaquate and the answer to every possible threat is not more rules? We are already getting ready for some sort of rules for LiPo batterys after the recent article by DB and the "Emergency" email from the safety commitee.

Well, that's a good start from me. Thanks again for coming on in and giving us a chance.

Gordo

ps....If you decide not to run, let us know ASAP so we can all take down the free ads in our signitures, we'll look kinda silly, ya know?

 

[TailTwister]

Dave M, I hope we are able to hear your thoughts on the issues Gordo raised. Thanks in advance for the time to read and respond.

Also, what happened, and when, that allowed two manufacturers to be able to have reference to the AMA Safety Alert in their ads before the alert was issued to the membership? If it's all that important, wouldn't we want the info to the members pronto, and not to the advertizers first? Isn't the AMA, intentionally or not, sending business their way?

I like the idea of the added safety feature, as explosions are BAD, but it seems like there was some under the table info going to someone to allow the manufacturers the time to get the reference in their ads before press. Why would anyone from Muncie allow the info to be given to a manufacturer which could use it to influence a buying decision? I sound like a jerk right now, but do some of EC members own stock in these companies, or what???

Personally, my charger automatically senses the cell count, and I always set the rate a hair below 1C, (I own only one capacity of cell as well...) so I feel confident without the circuits.

Is the EC or Safety Committee leaning towards a rule at this point, or are we going to stick with information sharing to help with the "Lithium Issue"?

Thanks again,
Frank B.

 

[dave152]

Hi Gordo,
Before I answer your questions I want to make a quick comment on the "Dave Brown loves to watch 3-D" thread. I was there but not in that picture. I asked Dave if he felt at risk standing there during that demo. He didn't. Not that any of that changed his mind but I did ask him to consider that sometimes when we create rules we do it with too broad a brush. He did agree. So as far as that goes I'm glad we went to that event. As for the comments about the "chick" in the picture standing between Dave Brown and Bruce Nelson, there was a wicked whine coming from the gearbox on that model. It bothered her. She doesn't own any stock in AXI. I do know if you pick on her she'll scratch your eyes out! That's my wife.

It'll be tough to answer your questions briefly enough so that they'll be readable here, but we can expand on any issue you care to.

I don't see 3-D being any different than any other flying style that's come along in the last 30 -35 years. Thinking back from the advent of helicopters, to big birds, to ducted fans, to turbines, to RC combat, to 3-D, to li-poly electric it's just new and different. While I suppose some could argue that 3-D is more dangerous than SOME forms of modeling, I don't see it as being any less safe, when flown responsibly, than several other disciplines that we endorse.

I don't think that Dave Brown has done an entirely bad job in his last nine years as president. I have seen a recent change in the way he looks at safety issues. He has a legitimate concern over our liability situation. I think I explained that concern in a private email that ended up here. I'm concerned that sometimes we let our liability concerns drive the Safety Code as opposed to safety issues driving the Safety Code. I'd rather see us work harder to find a reasonable solution to a concern as opposed to banning the style all together. And I think it's important to at least ask input form those that fly the style. The president's opinion shouldn't carry any more weight than any other EC member. In some cases maybe even less since the VP's are supposed to be representing the members in their district. That doesn't mean that a VP doesn't have an obligation to insure the well being of the organization, but in many cases the VP's are closer to the members by virtue of their position. I guess I'd prefer to manage by consensus. The Council as a whole should be setting the direction of the organization.

I'm pretty comfortable with the rules we have in place. That doesn't mean I'll never endorse another. Rules are not always the answer to safety concerns. The real solution is you guys. You're the only ones who can enforce the rules and insure safe activities. If you see something or someone doing something that may jeopardize what you like to do then you have an obligation to do something about it.

The Li-Po Safety Advisory was simply that. A piece to make members aware that this new technology is great but until it improves some, and it will, there are some concerns that our members should be aware of. Any battery manufacturer will tell you that. Visit the FMA Direct Website. As a matter of fact I hear that this advisory will be posted there as Fred Marks thinks the information is important to his customers. As for Dave's article and more rules, some of us think li-poly technology is our future. I'm not interested in any rule that would discourage its safe use.

Sorry this was so long.
Dave Mathewson

 

[Ulf]

.... As for the comments about the "chick" in the picture standing between Dave Brown and Bruce Nelson, .......I do know if you pick on here she'll scratch your eyes out! That's my wife.....

Dave Mathewson

:shock: :roll: oh boy....Good start ....... LMAO :lol:

 

[dave152]

Hi Frank,
I believe the safety alert you're talking about in the ad in MA was referring to the original "Safety Alert" issued by the AMA Safety Committee and first printed on page 6 of the July 2003 issue of Model Aviation under "On The Fly". Logistically I don't see how the ads could be referring to the most recent Safety Alert. That effort was initiated at a Safety Committee meeting held at Toledo and wasn't completed until just a few days before the email went out. If you go back and read the alert from the July 2003 issue you'll see how it ties in directly with the other text in the ad.

Knowing Don Lowe I'd bet my last buck he did at least speak with some manufacturers of li-polys just to make sure the comments in the SA were technically correct. I'd say that was appropriate and wise.

It's good that you're comfortable working with li-polys. Obviously you have some understanding of them. The alert is aimed at those who don't.

I haven't heard any talk at the EC level about any rule restricting the use of li-polys. As you know I like the concept of addressing safety issues through education. Exactly what this latest alert is intended to do.
Dave Mathewson

 

[TailTwister]

Thanks Dave. I have seem tons of memos and articles about Lithium batteries. Many on line firms will not sell you a Lithium pack (or cell) without first reading and clicking "I Understand" in regards to their safe use. I had not recognized any of them as being "From the AMA" at least officially. Thanks for clearing that up.

Secondly, after reading your post here. I noticed your reference to finding information shared in a "private e-mail" here at Pro Bro. I was not clear in my intentions when e-mailing you to begin with. My interest was to find out who you were and talk to the Bros about you. We had the conversation you had with Billy to go on, and that was it. Billy had a good feeling about you, and we (I and a few others) wanted to hear some facts. I could have, and should have, been more clear with my intentions, or simply asked to quote you. You have my apology for doing neither.

Lastly, I'm sure that the AMA has a cut off date for any candidate toseek nomination for office. When is that, and have you made any firm decision at this point?
Thanks,
Frank B.

 

[ChuckAuger]

As for the comments about the "chick" in the picture standing between Dave Brown and Bruce Nelson, there was a wicked whine coming from the gearbox on that model. It bothered her. She doesn't own any stock in AXI. I do know if you pick on her she'll scratch your eyes out! That's my wife.

Dave Mathewson

We need to get Sloan to change his gears!!

And I sure didn't mean any disrespect to your wife, maybe you should get her some AXI stock!!

 

[dave152]

Frank,
I didn't mean to imply I had a problem with your posting my email to you here. I didn't. Actually I read the post you made saying you were going to write me before you wrote. So I knew what was going to happen.

The cutoff date for AMA nominations is somewhere around the 1st of June (I'd have to check to give you an exact date). I hope to be able to make up my mind in the next couple weeks. Chuck, the "chick" in the picture thinks I should do it!

Dave Mathewson

 

[sloanfs]

[/quote]

We need to get Sloan to change his gears!!

[/quote]

Done.... A nasty midair took em out, Darn They still had a few good miles on them

 

[Gordo]

OK, First off, I respectfully request you re-read my post in the "Dave Brown loves to watch 3-D" thread. I think there was a computer glitch that made it look like I said "chick" while I didn't actually say that. And I really knew the truth of why she was holding her ears! (Godo's face is red from making an ass of himself, hoping that he can weasle his way out of it!! )

Thanks for the answers Dave. Guys, ask some more Q's while we can. I think we will only see one candidate here though I may be wrong. What would you like to ask Dave to do as president? Or not to do.

I especially like the part about asking pilots from within the disipline for input on rules. Chuckie has some definite ideas on the LiPo thing (as well as a fan club on RCGroups!!)

 

[ChuckAuger]

Please leave me out of the "Lipo Thing". My only thoughts are: I am responsible for what I use. The manufacturers are responsible for what they sell. If they sell a quality (but potentially dangerous) product, and I use it in a responsible manner, there shouldn't be a problem. I know the AMA will disagree if Lipo accidents start becoming more and more prevalent, and they can't be enthusiastic about paying claims brought about by Lipo fires. They can't be certain every user is responsible.

However, the general public does not seem intimidated by the quiet(except for Sloan), non-threatening electrics. This opens up a lot of new flying sites not under the control of the AMA. Already, I'd say 95% of my lipo use is not done at an AMA field. I fly electrics at a school yard and in a public park far more often than I ever do at a club field. So if the AMA decides they are not Lipo enthusiastic, I can still enjoy myself for the most part.

I'm not sure any of that makes any sense. And I'm not sure I agree with the danger assessment. Out of all the people I know who use Lipos, and of all the charge cycles we collectively have between us, I don't know of anybody who has ever even had a pack swell, much less burn. Agreed, when they DO burn, it makes headlines.

I imagine gasoline was considered "highly dangerous" at first (well, it still is) but look at the ease at which even kids and housewives handle it today. They are used to using it. Ever so often you read of a horrible accident, but my homeowners and auto insurance still cover me. Yes, they still cover me even though I handle a dangerous and even explosive substance almost daily. Not sure what the impact on my rates would be if gasoline was removed from the equation.

Well, enough of that.
Glad to see you here, Dave. I wish I knew some answers, but I am totally myopic and can only see it from my point of view.

Take care.

 

[steener]

i would first like to start by saying thank you very much for taking time to converse with the so called rebels. im sure you are aware by now, that if you run for pres you have our(Pro Bros) vote and support. i am very impressed by your open mind. i believe that is a prerequisite of a president.

one question. what do you fly?(the rest of my questions concerning your vote have been answered)

 

[Jim D]

Dave, by coming onto this board and politley answering questions, you have done more than any other EC member has in quite some time to reach out to modelers who feel a bit 'alienated' by the AMA as of late.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing more from you on the issues as election time nears.

 

[Ulf]

Dave, by coming onto this board and politley answering questions, you have done more than any other EC member has in quite some time to reach out to modelers who feel a bit 'alienated' by the AMA as of late.

Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing more from you on the issues as election time nears.

Ditto....Thanks

 

[dave152]

Chuck,
Your thoughts are not unreasonable. But, the Safety Alert was issued as an FYI to hopefully make our members aware that there are special considerations when working with this technology as opposed to what has been the norm for the last 20 or so years. There must be something to it if most manufacturers are trying to raise the awareness of their customers, too. Even at the NEAT Fair last year, arguably the largest E Fly In in the US, with about 300 registered pilots and thousands of spectators in 2003, there were signs on the flightline saying, "No unattended li-po charging". Tom Hunt and Bob Aberle run the NEAT Fair, both recognized experts in E Flight.

Insurance concerns weren't really a driving force here. Our FT&V policy is almost kind of "token". Our maximum exposure is only $1,000 per incident less a $100.00 deductible to the member. We only had a handful of fire claims last year (6 I think- and I don't know if any were related to li-po use) but there were several times that of reported li-po incidents. Homeowners and auto insurance cover the majority of claims here. So since we're bulk mailing notices to all those with no or bounced email addresses the cost of the project probably is close to or greater than the premium for the policy. It's really just a heads-up that may save somebody from an unfortunate incident.

The fact that electric flight opens new doors for flying sites is not lost on us. I wrote in another post that this is our future and we should embrace it. The issue of what impact this will have on AMA flying sites is a discussion for another time, but I don't think it will have, or has to have, the negative impact some others do.

The Safety Alert was really not aimed at those that have practical experience using li-pos. It was aimed at those that don't. My bet is that you've never seen anyone have a problem with li-pos because the guys you hang around with understand how they need to be treated. Not everybody has that understanding.
Dave Mathewson

 

[dave152]

Steener,
You're welcome and thank you.
Most of my modeling career I flew pattern. I also flew a lot of Quickee 500 pylon. A lot of my pylon flying was done with Joe Chovan and Mark Mozzo from TufFlight. I've done some speed 400 electric pylon racing and my claim to fame here is I won the first Speed 400 Electric Pylon event at the Canadian Nats last time it was on this coast (east). That sounds really good until I tell you that there were only 6 entries in the event and three didn't make it to the finals. I almost won by default.
Now I have a Hangar 9 Aresti for sport, and I have a 35% Carden Extra with a 3W 100 on the front. I do have a Sig Fazer with a Saito FA-50 on it. I've had it for several years. Probably the Model T of profiles.
Dave Mathewson

 

[Gordo]

Thanks for the input on LiPos Dave, I'll try nor to jump to conlusions in the future, we're just kind of "rule" shy!!

Good to hear you have a Profile, if you get around a ProBro event, come on out. Be sure to ask to fly someones Sledge! I don't think you've really flown a profile 'til you've flown a Sledge.

If you run for Pres, do you feel your relationships with the other VPs would be hurt? And do you feel you'll bring a unity on the EC or will some be against you for beating out Dave Brown?

Here's a big stinger: Do you feel the HQ in Muncie is the right thing for the AMA/hobby as a whole, as far as $ and use? Will you support expansion as some have suggested we do? Can you guess for us at the aprox % of the annual budget that the HQ takes? You can probably guess that I have doubts in this area. Having visited a couple of times, I wonder if this is good for all the mambers. But I'm not hardened either, seems it's a dead issue to most.

 

[3d-aholic]

Hi Gordo,
I don't see 3-D being any different than any other flying style that's come along in the last 30 -35 years. Thinking back from the advent of helicopters, to big birds, to ducted fans, to turbines, to RC combat, to 3-D, to li-poly electric it's just new and different. While I suppose some could argue that 3-D is more dangerous than SOME forms of modeling, I don't see it as being any less safe, when flown responsibly, than several other disciplines that we endorse.

Well that agrees with my position in a nutshell.

Its kinda like the gun-control battle. 3D planes don't cause crashes, bad pilots do. I have no problem sitting on the flight line with an experienced 3d pilot hovering his plane...but I find a roof over my head with the new guy comes out and is going to practice take off and landings.

I'm not exactly sure that those beliefs will save 3D but they give it a fighting chance.

 

[ChuckAuger]

Chuck,
The Safety Alert was really not aimed at those that have practical experience using li-pos. It was aimed at those that don't. My bet is that you've never seen anyone have a problem with li-pos because the guys you hang around with understand how they need to be treated. Not everybody has that understanding.
Dave Mathewson

Oh I agree, my post was more rhetorical rambling than meaningful input. I can understand the AMA wanting to be sure everybody "got the memo". And I'm not trying to start a mass exodus away from AMA fields to parks and playgrounds. It's just that when I saw the Presidents column, I fully expected the hammer was about to fall again.

As much as I gripe about it possibly happening (Lipo ban/regulation), hopefully I won't be impacted too dramatically. I guess I like to gripe on behalf of some guys who are too reserved to gripe in hopes that my gripe is their gripe as well.

Here's hoping that education and awareness will help avert any drastic measures and we can all go about a happy flying experience.

 

[TailTwister]

Dave, I'm also glad to hear there is a profile on your harem. The Sig Fazer still commands a bit of respect on the flightline, that's pretty amazing considering it's age. I would, however, not recommend you fly a Sledge, unless you are ready to buy one. The same goes for the Extreme Flight Edge, I'm told. You will never look at the Fazer the same way again. I thought I knew a good profile from a bad one, until I flew the Jeff Williams Sledge. I was immediately humbled and inspired.

Although I had the same "knee jerk" response as all, looking back I appreciate the Safety Notice, and hope that the information is carefully considered, and Lithium dangers subside because of the increased awareness. If the membership can make this happen, this is a perfect demonstration that information is a better weapon than overnight rule changes. In our local club, we have an engineer that is really well informed about the various batteries, I'll ask him to give a presentation, at our next meeting here, regarding safely using all of them.

As Dave said, and so have many others, we as responsible pilots must help the uninitiated learn things that have an impact on the hobby. Don't walk past the bone head tail touching on top of the baby stroller, don't let the bone head "crank it up a bit" while charging his LiPos (and then go for lunch), and do not walk past the bonehead shaking his finger at another pilot for no reason. We should all be comfortable keeping OUR hobby, and OUR fields safe and courteous.