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New AMA Rumor-Lipo's

836 Views 14 Replies 6 Participants Last post by  dhooks
I don't use Lipo's, YET. Not that smart. But has anyone hear the rumor that the AMA wants to ban some types of Lipo's? :evil: If I understand it, the ban applies to Lipo's that DO NOT have a protective circuit. Maybe, someone that is going to NEAT will hear about this and report back.
I read this on the e zone site. batteries section. Sorry, I don't know how to attach the link. :oops:

Remember, Just a rumor.

Ozzyman
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Fred Marks from FMA bought the rights to a safety balancing circuit from a person in Europe. Fred Marks is in bed with the AMA Safety Commitee. Fred Marks wants to make his batteries (Kokam) the only AMA approved packs. Other Mfg's will have to follow suit.

Just my take on it... Fred Marks was the "consultant" on the AMA Sky Is Falling Lipo Warning, he wants to be well positioned if the AMA tosses down another mandate.
ChuckAuger said:
Fred Marks from FMA bought the rights to a safety balancing circuit from a person in Europe. Fred Marks is in bed with the AMA Safety Commitee. Fred Marks wants to make his batteries (Kokam) the only AMA approved packs. Other Mfg's will have to follow suit.

quote]

Follow suit in this case means paying FMA out the yang for the right to use their very basic technology.
Well, right now FMA isn't my favorite company anyway. They're giving me some run-around on a battery pack I sent in to them.
Damn, I don't fly with the town club. Just at parks around town. BUTT, I'm a AMA member. If this is true it's going to cost our hobby and more importantly, the average joe flyer. I know I don't have a sponser to buy me new batteries. But what about the young flyers. Busting his ass on his or her paper route or mowing yards. Thier ****ed... But the AMA says it's O.K.

The sky IS falling.

Ozzyman
Sounds like something all the other lipo distributers will scream blood murder about, and I think they definetly have a right to.

Ezone link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276530
This is my first electric and by the time I purchased everything I needed -- I had about 10 of those LiPoly warning flyers...not to mention the 8 I had to sift through on the Net to decide what to buy and to make my purchase.
Well, the good news is...the balancing circuit is dirt cheap and doesn't weigh hardly anything. And it's probably a good idea. Built in safety circuits are why you never hear of laptops or cell phones bursting in flames. Granted, you don't push your laptop to the limits and I still think hard discharge is probably the reason most packs go poof when charged.

As long as the AMA will grandfather existing packs and the Mfgs don't have to pay extortion money to FMA, it really is probably not that bad of an idea.

The reason I even say that is.... I have a lot of Tanic packs with the balancing taps on them. After the Tulsa and Texarkana ProBros, where they got quite a bit of use, I decided to break down and do a cell-by-cell charge. And a few of them were a little out of balance, and took in a little more or less charge than other cells in the pack. Unchecked, over time, this is a bad thing. Not just from a safety standpoint, but it shortens the life of some pretty expensive packs. Downside?? It takes 3 hrs + to charge a pack this way. I think the safety charging circuit is designed to balance as you charge so you could balance and charge in the regular hour.

And that is a good thing, I would just have hoped the Mfgs would have taken it upon themselves before the AMA stepped in.
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I wish I could find the article but I think it was either MAN or RCM had a short note in there about DB's rant in MA. The brief version was that lipos were not as dangerous as DB thought they were. Even moderate abuse does not cause them to burst into flames etc. I think it also mentioned they felt he had gotten his info from a wrong source or gotten it incorrectly, something along those lines. Ill try to find it so I can get a direct quote.
Yeah, DB was freakin'. It's hard to dispute that Lipos do pose a risk, but running around with your hair on fire isn't a very effective means of issuing a safety warning.
ChuckAuger said:
Yeah, DB was freakin'. It's hard to dispute that Lipos do pose a risk, but running around with your hair on fire isn't a very effective means of issuing a safety warning.
I guess this explains why he has very few hair remaining on his head. :D
I've seen a video where they super-overcharged a lipo and it popped but my experience is that they aren't that easy to blow up. There was a situation where myself and several other guys intentionally overcharged a lipo and it barely got hot much less explode. Another time with a "puffed" cell it was stabbed with a knife which (I think) should have shorted the circuits and done "something" but again, nothing happened...

I hate the idea if;
Only one company has the rights/patent or whatever.
It will weigh more.
It will cost more.
I'll have to charge longer.
AMA butts in.

If none of those are too noticiable, then I guess I really don't care.
Cell taps are a good idea. It makes it real easy to balance a pack. Personally, I don't want a circuit on there at all times. I would rather keep track of individual cell voltage myself. A circuit that stayed with the charger, and pluged into the taps would be more acceptable.

rik756 I agree to a certain extent. Some people have intentionally stabbed shot (with a pelet gun) and mangled packs and had nothing happen, but I have heard of one guy trying to poke a hole in a damaged cell, trying to neutralize it before disposing of it, and it burst on him. They are a little unconsistant.

I have personally had cells puff up(but not burst) because of a small hole that caused a loss of vacume, short circuit in a crash, and being stored to long at a full charge.

I think the biggest cause of violent explosions is human error on the charge settings, followed by physical cell damage(the unconsistant thing). My charger has a nice feature to prevent charging at the wrong cell count, unless the user is really insistant on doing it. It will check the cell count itself, and then you have to confirm before it will start charging.

I think there should be a better warning than the DB rant, written by people who know what they are doing, before they resort to any kind of ban. It should include things like checking the individual cells voltages in your packs, periodic balancing by charging each cell individually, inspecting your pack for swollen cells(this happens well before a fire in a pack that is out of balance because of hard use), proper disposal of damaged cells/ packs(not even sure what that is my self. all mine are stored in a metal tool box), and of course, in big bold letters, CHARGE AT THE CORRECT CELL COUNT
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A guy at our field crashed his plane last weekend and his lipolys caught on fire. They watched it burn for like 30 minutes.
3d-aholic said:
A guy at our field crashed his plane last weekend and his lipolys caught on fire. They watched it burn for like 30 minutes.
I dont think any ones denying that lipos can cause serious damage. In that situation I doubt any kind of safety regulater would have helped much. Point being you make all kinds of rules an regs to make them safe an you can still destroy them. Safetys a great thing we just dont need knee jerk reactions to take affect without some good common sense being involved.
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