Great question Gordo I bought a couple of Etecs because its what the store carried that I was buying at. I was lost so just got what I could lay my hands on without any real knowledge. Pauls a Tanic (or however you spell it) dealer, maybe he got some ideas.
Let's talk LiPO Batteries.....
Ok, I've heard the and that about this battery and that battery. I just bought what I saw others use, one eTec 1200 and one Thunder Pack 1320. They seemed the same to me flying, and I've been at it a few months.
the other day I got an unusually short flight on the Thunder so I charged it and to my surprise it only took a few hundred Mah. So I flew it again, same. I guess it's toast. How could it dies after only a few months? Maybe 40 or 50 flights?
Soooooooooo what causes that to happen? And what is the waranty on that stuff?
I need annother one or two packs, what is REALLY best and why? Details, what makes it worth the extra $ and what doesn't?
the other day I got an unusually short flight on the Thunder so I charged it and to my surprise it only took a few hundred Mah. So I flew it again, same. I guess it's toast. How could it dies after only a few months? Maybe 40 or 50 flights?
Soooooooooo what causes that to happen? And what is the waranty on that stuff?
I need annother one or two packs, what is REALLY best and why? Details, what makes it worth the extra $ and what doesn't?
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Suckin too much juice from them will kill them faster than anything. And an anecdote:
I flew for quite a while with a Himax 2015 4100 and a CC P10. No sweat. Hooked the Razor 350 up and fried the CC P10 in a few flights...it musta drawed more amps than the Himax, but at the time I didn't have a Whattmeter to check it.
And you just started using a Razor.
If you follow Castle Creations directions on LVC setting and have it set for 7.2V and soft cut, you can draw them down pretty good below 3V/cell. Not saying this is your problem, but that it is a potential cause. Drawing the cells down below 3V will hurt them, also.
Now about the batteries. The Etecs were rated at 7.5C I think. That's 9 amps max. My Razor 350 draws 11.2A off an Etec, that's 9.3C. So it goes without saying this is too hard on the Etecs. If your ThunderPower is not the newest version, it's only good for 8C, or about 11A. This pack sould have been able to handle the current draw as long as you didn't ever drag it down to less than 3V/cell.
OK back to the Razor.. Drew 11.2A off the Etecs. Hook it up to a Tanic and it draws 13A. Goes from 105 watts to 125 watts..20% more power. What this means is it was just hammering the Etecs. You can't look at it as "Well, I was only drawing 11A.." It was drawing every bit of juice the battery could provide, killing the battery. Luckily for my packs, death was dealt out in short bursts of full throttle. Hook it up to a battery that can deliver, and now it shows it's true potential. And it tells me how big of a pack I need to fly it.
Or a smaller pack??
Enter the Irate 1100. This pack, although only an 1100Mah pack, can do 10C continuous, 12C bursts. So it can deliver the amps needed to both make the Razor happy and not self destruct. This is what I use on my Razor now.
The new Tanics are 12C continous, 15C bursts. So now you can run a 1050Mah pack and deliver more amps than the 1350 TP could.
So I imagine you just rode your packs a little hard. If you only have a couple, it's tempting to put one back on the charger before it's cooled completely down, and this is not good on them either. They need to cool completely down before you charge them
I don't know what's the BEST battery out there, but I have pretty much settled on Tanics. I like them, they have individual cell taps built in, and they are just fine batteries. If I can't get them, I use Irates. Plus Pauly is a Tanic dealer 8)
I flew for quite a while with a Himax 2015 4100 and a CC P10. No sweat. Hooked the Razor 350 up and fried the CC P10 in a few flights...it musta drawed more amps than the Himax, but at the time I didn't have a Whattmeter to check it.
And you just started using a Razor.
If you follow Castle Creations directions on LVC setting and have it set for 7.2V and soft cut, you can draw them down pretty good below 3V/cell. Not saying this is your problem, but that it is a potential cause. Drawing the cells down below 3V will hurt them, also.
Now about the batteries. The Etecs were rated at 7.5C I think. That's 9 amps max. My Razor 350 draws 11.2A off an Etec, that's 9.3C. So it goes without saying this is too hard on the Etecs. If your ThunderPower is not the newest version, it's only good for 8C, or about 11A. This pack sould have been able to handle the current draw as long as you didn't ever drag it down to less than 3V/cell.
OK back to the Razor.. Drew 11.2A off the Etecs. Hook it up to a Tanic and it draws 13A. Goes from 105 watts to 125 watts..20% more power. What this means is it was just hammering the Etecs. You can't look at it as "Well, I was only drawing 11A.." It was drawing every bit of juice the battery could provide, killing the battery. Luckily for my packs, death was dealt out in short bursts of full throttle. Hook it up to a battery that can deliver, and now it shows it's true potential. And it tells me how big of a pack I need to fly it.
Or a smaller pack??
Enter the Irate 1100. This pack, although only an 1100Mah pack, can do 10C continuous, 12C bursts. So it can deliver the amps needed to both make the Razor happy and not self destruct. This is what I use on my Razor now.
The new Tanics are 12C continous, 15C bursts. So now you can run a 1050Mah pack and deliver more amps than the 1350 TP could.
So I imagine you just rode your packs a little hard. If you only have a couple, it's tempting to put one back on the charger before it's cooled completely down, and this is not good on them either. They need to cool completely down before you charge them
I don't know what's the BEST battery out there, but I have pretty much settled on Tanics. I like them, they have individual cell taps built in, and they are just fine batteries. If I can't get them, I use Irates. Plus Pauly is a Tanic dealer 8)
Wow Chucky, you totally nailed it. I have been drawing that pack down a bit more with the razor, and I have done a few long time full throttle climbs up to see how high it could get. I bet that's when I fried it.
So, Tanics or Itates. I got it. Now if they are available............We'll see if paul can get me some.
So, Tanics or Itates. I got it. Now if they are available............We'll see if paul can get me some.
Did I get this right chuck....? My Himax4100 with 1200 etecs with a CC P10 will probably live for a while? But if I go to a razor im screwed?
Yeah, I know it's dang confusing. And I don't know all the variables that make these things tick. But....
I had so many flights on a Himax 2015 4100/ Etec 1200/ CC P 10/ GWS D gear/ Gws 12X6 that I wore the brass pinion out. I've estimated hundreds of flights. I don't know if it's the different efficiencies so the Himax just can't draw enough amps on that set up, or if it is a design variable that allows the Himax to operate on that set up..I just don't know. And to make matters worse, I didn't have a Whattmeter when I had a Himax.
But I swapped the Himax out for the Razor 350 and promptly started abusing components. No doubt the Razor has more punch, so you would expect it to draw more juice to do it. I was kinda hoping that since it was touted as a more efficient motor it would make more power without melting my stuff. Didn't happen.
But the amp readings taken above were on the same set up (except a CC P25) and they pretty much indicate that the Razor is going to be hard on that equipment.
I had so many flights on a Himax 2015 4100/ Etec 1200/ CC P 10/ GWS D gear/ Gws 12X6 that I wore the brass pinion out. I've estimated hundreds of flights. I don't know if it's the different efficiencies so the Himax just can't draw enough amps on that set up, or if it is a design variable that allows the Himax to operate on that set up..I just don't know. And to make matters worse, I didn't have a Whattmeter when I had a Himax.
But I swapped the Himax out for the Razor 350 and promptly started abusing components. No doubt the Razor has more punch, so you would expect it to draw more juice to do it. I was kinda hoping that since it was touted as a more efficient motor it would make more power without melting my stuff. Didn't happen.
But the amp readings taken above were on the same set up (except a CC P25) and they pretty much indicate that the Razor is going to be hard on that equipment.
See Im learning stuff now that I wish I had known when I bought my stuff but hey live an learn its no ones fault buy my own. I wish now I had bought one of these package deals. I suck at soldering an electrical stuff in general. I have everything just sitting here waiting for final assembly but no joy.
I tried to send you a PM Gordo... Somethings wrong with my inbox... Here's the info:
I can get you what ever you want..... Just let me know what size and how many... I can get them drop shipped to your house if you like too.
Currently the sizes I have available are:
520mah
830mah
1050mah
1550mah
2150mah
2500mah
Can get them in any configuration you want... With whatever connector.
Send me an email of what you want.
I can get you what ever you want..... Just let me know what size and how many... I can get them drop shipped to your house if you like too.
Currently the sizes I have available are:
520mah
830mah
1050mah
1550mah
2150mah
2500mah
Can get them in any configuration you want... With whatever connector.
Send me an email of what you want.
What do you need help with?? If you need it soldered, send it to me and I'll solder it up and send it back. Or we can walk you thru it here. It's really satisfying to learn a new skill and put it to use!dhooks said:See Im learning stuff now that I wish I had known when I bought my stuff but hey live an learn its no ones fault buy my own. I wish now I had bought one of these package deals. I suck at soldering an electrical stuff in general. I have everything just sitting here waiting for final assembly but no joy.
And don't beat yourself up over buying "the right thing", the state of the art is moving so, so rapidly right now it would be almost impossible to buy something that won't be old news in 6 months. I have a good deal more than $1K invested in 10~12C packs and looks like 20C will be the new paradigm. But I'm gonna use these up, you can bet yer ass 8)
Thats the problem, I bought the plane from you what 6 months ago an have been collecting stuff ever since but the way the electrics are progressing Im behind the curve. I need to get a soldering Iron I guess, something I dont have.
Yeah, a soldering iron is dang handy..but don't think your stuff is just no good since better stuff is out now. Remember, I flew my Himax/Etec/ CC P10 from Sept 03 to Mar 04 pretty much as often as I could, several flights a week easy. It worked great for me, it'll work great for you.
I'm always testing new motors and lipos searching for the ultimate E 3D setup. The good news is almost everytime we get new Lipos from Kokam or Thunder Power they amp draw is better and better. Right now we have Kokams coming that can go up to 15C of amp draw and the 20C is on the way.
What does that mean? Well if I have a 5 lbs profile and I put a 4130 on the nose and a 17x10 prop I will pull 55 amps (I know that because I put a Watt Meter on it and got the actual number. This means that my Lipo better be able to put out at least 60 amps or she will toast pretty quickly like Gordos battery.
So I'm always tweaking the numbers. Right now the only thing holding me back are batteries. I need 2 Lipos that can make 60 amps and that's pushing it right now.
I also use ECalc to help create a setup when I start building a system.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ecalc.htm
SIDE BAR - The system above is making 140 ounces of thrust on an 83 ounce plane. That's pretty good power. The 17x10 prop really creates a huge amount of air over the surfaces. It is very sweet.
What does that mean? Well if I have a 5 lbs profile and I put a 4130 on the nose and a 17x10 prop I will pull 55 amps (I know that because I put a Watt Meter on it and got the actual number. This means that my Lipo better be able to put out at least 60 amps or she will toast pretty quickly like Gordos battery.
So I'm always tweaking the numbers. Right now the only thing holding me back are batteries. I need 2 Lipos that can make 60 amps and that's pushing it right now.
I also use ECalc to help create a setup when I start building a system.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/ecalc.htm
SIDE BAR - The system above is making 140 ounces of thrust on an 83 ounce plane. That's pretty good power. The 17x10 prop really creates a huge amount of air over the surfaces. It is very sweet.
I assume this plane will be available for demo flights at Nashville? I'm gonna be thinking this fall about winter builds, and either they will be 25 and 40 size electrics or a GS Profile. So many planes, so few $$$$$~!!!!!BillyHell said:SIDE BAR - The system above is making 140 ounces of thrust on an 83 ounce plane. That's pretty good power. The 17x10 prop really creates a huge amount of air over the surfaces. It is very sweet.
Hey Billy at the risk of derailing the thread.....what kind of cost is it running to electrify a .40 size profile?
Boy, that's a loaded, multi answer, totally subjective, completely open to opinion question..........too bad this aint RCU, it would get real fun :lol:dhooks said:Hey Billy at the risk of derailing the thread.....what kind of cost is it running to electrify a .40 size profile?
I'll start a thread about it. I have pics and stuff I should post anyway.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
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