dual rates and mixes
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
G
Guest
·My personal standpoint on mixes is none. I like to fly as true as possible. Mixing will only teach you bad habits when you have them turned on. If my plane couples on knife edge, I want to learn how to tune it straight with my fingers, mixes can get you lazy. The only exception to the rule that I have are spoilerons and thats just on my giant scale planes. But if my plane can't fly a certain way without a mix, I just won't force it. Now this is just my personal opinion. This is also why I like profiles. They are setup so many ways that you don't need any mixing.
Dual rates however are a must. When you are doing slow and graceful moves, low rates can be your friend to make them more precise by not allowing you to throw in too much rates.
For example on one or two of my planes if I do an inverted flat spin I have to be real careful not over cross control my ailerons with the rudder or I will completely lose my spin. Low rates will make it come down with a nice flat spin.
Another low rate must, for me, are harrier rolls and harriers. Why give more throw potential then you have to? Expo only works on the inside of the gimble, but they still have the same amount of throw if you hit them hard on either rate.
Low rates, especially for landings when you only have an 1"-2" clearance.
Honestly even using low rates can make you lazy, however they will save your plane much better then expo will under certain conditions. Especially if you like flying eXtreme 3D like myself and few others on this site.
Dual rates however are a must. When you are doing slow and graceful moves, low rates can be your friend to make them more precise by not allowing you to throw in too much rates.
For example on one or two of my planes if I do an inverted flat spin I have to be real careful not over cross control my ailerons with the rudder or I will completely lose my spin. Low rates will make it come down with a nice flat spin.
Another low rate must, for me, are harrier rolls and harriers. Why give more throw potential then you have to? Expo only works on the inside of the gimble, but they still have the same amount of throw if you hit them hard on either rate.
Low rates, especially for landings when you only have an 1"-2" clearance.
Honestly even using low rates can make you lazy, however they will save your plane much better then expo will under certain conditions. Especially if you like flying eXtreme 3D like myself and few others on this site.
Joined
·
7,122 Posts
:? Oh, I see, only you and a FEW others, eh? LOL JUST KIDDINGTeamOMP3 said:
I set up my DRs but don't get around to using them once I'm comfortable with the plane. And I've been weaning off the expo. I still like it on my Rudder on the burrito. But I put the Taco on an old radio w/o any mixes or expo at all. And that's been my main ride for several months.
I just got my 9C and I'll be trying it out tomarow. I set up tripple rates on one plane, useing it for expo changes more than throws. That way I can try expo rates one after annother and see what I really like.
I have tried to mix out KE stuff, but I find the tuck is easy to take care of with raising the ailerons, and the roll couple I prefer to do manually because I can't get any mix for all speeds.
But I'm not anything like these other guys, I'm like a middle level hacker.
Joined
·
408 Posts
I use as much throw as possible, and no more than 30% expo. Sometimes I just plain forget to put expo in when I set up a model. No mixes. I agree with TeamOMP3's veiw on them. At the very most, I'll set up elevator to flap mixing on a switch, but I've found that if my elevator is big enough, and my cg is far enough back, it doesn't make things much tighter, it just looks cool with the flaps at 60-70 degrees in a tight loop.
Joined
·
330 Posts
I use D/R extensively and no expo. I find that expo slows down my reactions due to having to move the stick farther. I also keep the D/R for each channel on it's own switch so that the throws can be tailored for each situation. Also, I never use those flappy-spoilerator thingys, but I do make a small effort to mix out the KE coupling.
That's just me...everyone has their own way of doing things, and if they like it, then it's right for them.
Gary
That's just me...everyone has their own way of doing things, and if they like it, then it's right for them.
Gary
Joined
·
7,122 Posts
Hey gary!Gary Seeloff said:I use D/R extensively and no expo. I find that expo slows down my reactions due to having to move the stick farther. I also keep the D/R for each channel on it's own switch so that the throws can be tailored for each situation. Also, I never use those flappy-spoilerator thingys, but I do make a small effort to mix out the KE coupling.
That's just me...everyone has their own way of doing things, and if they like it, then it's right for them.
Gary
I've heard you say that before and that's what's caused me to get away from expo. I actually set pretty high expo yesterday on my Sledge out of fear, and thought "Huh, this is kind of sluggish compared to the Taco." then remembered later it was the expo.
Could you explain how/when you use your dual rates. I've watched you flying and I know you're always flipping that thing, I'm surprised you haven't worn that DR switch out, but I don't remember whei it's on and off.
Thanks man
Gordo
Joined
·
330 Posts
Sure thing Gordo! First off....I don't use just one switch to control the rates, I prefer to have a separate switch for each channel. It's hard to say "for maneuver 'X' I use such-and-such rates" because it depends on what I'm doing and what plane I'm flying.Gordo said:
For instance, for knife edge I'll use high ailerons and low elevator. If I'm doing a low slow KE pass I'll use hi rate rudder. Or, if I want to go romping around the field in KE, I'll carry a little more speed and use low rudder for more precision.
For hovering, I always start off with all hi rates, but will sometimes go to low elevator and/or rudder if conditions are really good.
Now, after saying all that, there are a couple things I should point out:
For profile planes, my low rates aren't as low as you might be thinking. Maybe 20-25º.
I don't have all this stuff memorized. I'm a "seat of the pants" flyer, I just go with what feels right.
Yes, it's a lot of switch-flipping. I keep a finger at or near all 3 switches at all times. I do wonder about wearing out the switches...but as hard as I am on equipment, I'll probably never keep a radio long enough to find out. :shock:
In no way do I think this is the "right" way of doing it.....it's just my quirky little way. And anyway...you asked! 8)
Gary
Joined
·
15,012 Posts
Hey Gary, glad you got in!!
Keep up the tips, man!! I'm a thrasher, I need all the advice I can get!
Keep up the tips, man!! I'm a thrasher, I need all the advice I can get!
Joined
·
2,367 Posts
Im still getting away from the pooh pooh 'em syndrome myself and as a matter of fact I ripped the tail right off my 3dx yesterday in an inverted harrier heh didn't even flinch hah....
But I fly with a Jr 8103 it has + and - expo I typically use a lot on high rates just to deaden the center a touch but my understanding of the + and - expo is the + deaden's the center of the gimbles and the - makes them more sensitive with a deader band towards the middle on the control throw ? I can't read so thats just my best guess I would love sombody to correct me if I have it wrong. I have tried both on the foamy and the negative side of expo must be for somebody with better reflexes than I but I would like to hear some more on the subject...
Stano
But I fly with a Jr 8103 it has + and - expo I typically use a lot on high rates just to deaden the center a touch but my understanding of the + and - expo is the + deaden's the center of the gimbles and the - makes them more sensitive with a deader band towards the middle on the control throw ? I can't read so thats just my best guess I would love sombody to correct me if I have it wrong. I have tried both on the foamy and the negative side of expo must be for somebody with better reflexes than I but I would like to hear some more on the subject...
Stano
Joined
·
37 Posts
I dunno about JR, because they are inferior to Futaba But with my Futaba the negative expo makes the middle of the gimble less sensitive, whereas the positive expo makes it more sensitive in the middle. Since, JR and Futaba like to do stuff backwards from each other the expos are probably reversed too.
But with my Futaba the negative expo makes the middle of the gimble less sensitive, whereas the positive expo makes it more sensitive in the middle. Since, JR and Futaba like to do stuff backwards from each other the expos are probably reversed too.
Joined
·
4,916 Posts
I'll put in my 2 cents. While I'm no Gator/Jess/Gary/JW/etc. I have my own theories about this. I ran dual rates for a while but after a while I just kept everything on high rates with 35 to 45 expo. When I land I want all my ele and rudder. I am running into problems with flat spins and too much throw. I may have to go back to dual rates to fix this but I figure if I can just get the sticks right it will be no problem. I have never mixed out coupling. I just jack my ailerons up a tad and that usually does it. I have flaperons and spoilerons on everything. Jess has talked me out of using those mostly. I am starting to use flaperons on my little electrics a lot now though. Thus ends my thesis on dual rates.
Joined
·
1,250 Posts
My 2 cents.
I don't use dual rates much.
I set the control throws to as much as they will do on high rates and then set the expo to 50% for the first flight. I'll then set low rates at about 1/2 throw and 50% expo also.
I will then adjust the high rate expo for my flying style. The only time I have found low rates useful is sometimes in a flatspin it is easier to not "over control" the ailerons if they are on low rates.
But, that being said, the low rates are programed, because I do try them when I'm trying different aerobatics to see if the bird will respond better on low vs. high. But, I have not found many instances where low rates work better.
Just what works for me.
I don't use dual rates much.
I set the control throws to as much as they will do on high rates and then set the expo to 50% for the first flight. I'll then set low rates at about 1/2 throw and 50% expo also.
I will then adjust the high rate expo for my flying style. The only time I have found low rates useful is sometimes in a flatspin it is easier to not "over control" the ailerons if they are on low rates.
But, that being said, the low rates are programed, because I do try them when I'm trying different aerobatics to see if the bird will respond better on low vs. high. But, I have not found many instances where low rates work better.
Just what works for me.
Joined
·
41 Posts
I lost my Sig Cap the second time due to taking off on full rates. I rebuilt the thing after blowing up a Lithium Ion battery in the fuselage. Spent 50 hours rebuilding from scratch. Took it to the field did all my preflights. Checked for my dual rate switch and took off on hirates. I couldn't touch the elevator without it snapping. Well after three snaps that's all she wrote.
I now have buttons in the end of my Tx sticks. I can program them to be anything I want. Currently I have the right one programmed as my high rates. So I can go in and out of hi rates rather quickly. Left one I am working on programming for knife edge. I have it programmed just need to fine tune the curves. I can have 13 point curves on each servo and each servo can have 8 individual mixers so hopefully one day before I shelve the Pizzaz for my sons I will get it to KE loop or KE Harrier if it won't go back up. But at least I will be able to program out the snap at the bottom of the attempted loop.
All this is on a Multiplex Profi 4000 Tx.
I am hoping that when I get the OMP Giant Edge in the air I can just use expo and won't need dual rates on this one.
I now have buttons in the end of my Tx sticks. I can program them to be anything I want. Currently I have the right one programmed as my high rates. So I can go in and out of hi rates rather quickly. Left one I am working on programming for knife edge. I have it programmed just need to fine tune the curves. I can have 13 point curves on each servo and each servo can have 8 individual mixers so hopefully one day before I shelve the Pizzaz for my sons I will get it to KE loop or KE Harrier if it won't go back up. But at least I will be able to program out the snap at the bottom of the attempted loop.
All this is on a Multiplex Profi 4000 Tx.
I am hoping that when I get the OMP Giant Edge in the air I can just use expo and won't need dual rates on this one.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
