[ChuckAuger]

With the advent of small, light, low inertia 3D foamies, it looked like a fun and safe source of 3D was on hand. A plane that weighs less than a cheeseburger didn't appear to pose much of a threat. We even joked about being "Gatored".

Here was a plane that could violate #9 and even if damaged pose no real threat of injury.

That just had to irk Dave no end.

So in his June column, Dave maps out his plans to go after LiPo batteries, the power supply for these evil planes that negated a large part of his argument in favor of the addition to #9.

Thanks to forward thinkers like Dave Brown, we will not have to suffer through the horrors of all the endless hours of 3D we only thought we were enjoying. With the appropriate NiCads strapped onto these planes, they will be forced to fly on the wing, like Dave knows a plane should.

Being the stupid idiot I am, I was snake charmed into believing I was having fun flying these little planes. Now Dave has opened my eyes to the truth. I was really in grave perile, but the endorphines flowing in my blood had me numbed to the fact I was actually miserable.

That was a close one, guys! I was almost over the edge, ready to trade in my benign methanol and nitromethane for these murderous little batteries.

But Dave will make sure I am safe from myself, and it only cost me $58/year!!

 

[wgeffon]

You mean I can use a battery with half the capacity and twice the weight of the plane? COOL!

Low wingloading isnt that important for 3D.
:roll:

 

[BIZZARO]

Well maybe we can figure out a way to use one of his motor mounts or other DB products on our foamys to give him a reason to leave us alone.like $$$

But then again I cant think of a single DB product that I have on any of my profiles...HOLY SHIT... Only Pattern flyers and circle jerkers use his shit.. Thats is probably one of the main reasons he doesnt support 3D... Or maybe he thinks we do use some of his hardware and that is why he thinks a rudder could fail!!! :twisted:

 

[steener]

and we want to vote him out? i guess were the ignorant ones. being an electrician, i am usually concerned with high voltage, when all along these little devils were right under my nose. i dont know what id do with out you dave.

 

[ChuckAuger]

LOL what a coincidence! Just had somebody try to send me a virus from [email protected] Feel the love. I'm not gonna flatter myself and think it was an idiot targeting me, probably just a coincidence. :wink: I posted a note with similar sarcasm on RCU, and now emails generated from there have no RCU header. Note to idiots...Chuck don't get viruses.

 

[TailTwister]

It's funny to me where he mentions that Li-Pos are more dangerous than Li-Ions.

Isn't the whole point of the Li-Po casing to make it vent more safely than the first run Li-Ion design, which exploded violently? Did I miss something?

I also noted his comment that the Safety Committe is looking into it. Get ready for some rules guys... :roll:

Maybe I could just fly a Nerf free flight, wil full body armor, of course. Would DB leave me alone then?

DB sucks ass, and spits shit! :evil:

 

[ChuckAuger]

Yeah, that's what he gets from reading what is spoon fed him, rather than actually being there and doing that.

Yes, metal can Lions do explode violently, LiPos vent with flames. A small distinction, but I knew it, as did you, and we ain't the ones trying to establish safety for 170,000 members.

As will please Billy, I am already involved in a debate on this matter at RCU. I expect it to deteriorate rapidly, but one point I made that will back Frank, "When Dave Brown decides to address a "safety issue", seems like it ends up in the AMA Safety Code first, then it's left up to the members to try to get the code revised."

Yeah, Dave has his sights set. Look for a technology bannning soon at an AMA field near you.

 

[spacey]

:shock: This is just plain poo!!! Times like these i'm sorta glad I live in SA, no #9 or anything remotely similar. But I guess it might only be time till Bob Skinner and Dave Armitage start following examples! Where can I help guys? Please lead the way!

"Never give up! Never surrender!"

 

[TailTwister]

spacey, you and some of the other International Bros are in a good position right now. The point is to not let it get as far as the US has let the AMA get. If a safety rule is really about safety, and there is good reason to have it, then the rule belongs. If the rules start to read like"we just don't want you doing this", then the problem is getting out of hand.

The AMA simply does not want tail touching to happen due to a perceived liability issue. No evidence to back up their position, just hypothesis based on the thoughts of a very few people.

Mold your modeling community into a better situation. Vote every time you can, and keep on your leadership there to stay true to the fact that modeling is a hobby, and not supposed to be about fear and liability.

If we had "seen the writing on the wall", and voted DB out a few years ago, perhaps we would be in a less defensive position now. At a minimum, the AMA would not be as egar to make uyp rules without listening to a few opinions first.

 

[ChuckAuger]

We need Billy Hell and some of the other hevy hitters in the Lipo industry to put some pressure on Dave Brown to stop with his plans before they become rules.

 

[TailTwister]

Anybody now Fred Marks (FMA) personally?

He would be great to dispute some of the crap that is sure to come of this...

I wouldn't buy a LiPo, until I read his information. He convinced me that the batteries aren't dangerous, but the abuse of them was.

 

[adrenalnjunky]

The AMA simply does not want tail touching to happen due to a perceived liability issue. No evidence to back up their position, just hypothesis based on the thoughts of a very few people.

Amen -- I knew when I got to work this morning that this topic would be waiting on me. I got my AMA mag in the mail last night and upon reading that article, and basing it on the #9 debacle, I know where his mind is going.

Also, from a legal standpoint, you can't base a law on heresay -- throughout that article DB used phrases like "I have been told" "I don't have firsthand experience" "I read on internet forums" ....He hasn't taken the time to do first hand research, and back that research up with fact, just opinion, and in several cases, other people's opinions, not his own.

AMA isn't basing their safety rules on true known issues. Hell the president of my club was flying a buddies Super Decathlon - he's one of the best pilots I've seen, and loves 3D and aerobatics. He was doing some inverted snaps and belender-like maneuver with the decathlon while a group of us were bsing back in the pits - kinda casually watching the show he was putting on. After one violent snap the plane rolls out inverted in a sweet spiral and appears to be fully under control - He yells out "I aint got it!" We didn't believe him, thinking he's joking, and to show us, he hold the transmitter out showing the plane not responding to any control input. Everyone out there had at least 10 seconds to watch the plane make nice tight inverted spirals into the ground. The culprit? one of the snap rolls dislodged the Rx batt and unplugged it.

Due to the aerobatics the plane lost control and flew itself into the ground. This is no different than a servo stripping or a control horn breaking and the pilot loosing control. That Decathlon could have come striaght for us, or the vehicles in the parking lot with no tail touching involved --luckily it headed out from the pits and crashed just beyond our runway.

short story -- shit happens and you can't prepare for it all, that's why the phrase exists.

Law can't be put on the books and used to pass judgement until it is ruled on, or voted in. Our litigious society has gotten so overwhelming that if you fear it enough, you wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.

The sky is not falling, hovering is not going to end the acro world, and shit is still going to happen, one way or another...AMA just needs to get over it.

 

[ChuckAuger]

"LiPos don't kill people, people kill people!"

Whoops, wrong crusade

 

[Quicker]

 

[ChuckAuger]

 

[jnohsey]

EMERGENCY SAFETY ALERT

Lithium Battery Fires
Lithium batteries are becoming very popular for powering the control and power systems in our models. This is true because of their very high energy density (amp-hrs/wt. ratio) compared to NiCads or other batteries. With high energy comes increased risk in their use. The, principal, risk is FIRE which can result from improper charging, crash damage, or shorting the batteries. All vendors of these batteries warn their customers of this danger and recommend extreme caution in their use. In spite of this many fires have occurred as a result of the use of Lithium Polymer batteries, resulting in loss of models, automobiles, and other property. Homes and garages and workshops have also burned. A lithium battery fire is very hot (several thousand degrees) and is an excellent initiator for ancillary (resulting) fires. Fire occurs due to contact between Lithium and oxygen in the air. It does not need any other source of ignition, or fuel to start, and burns almost explosively.

These batteries must be used in a manner that precludes ancillary fire. The following is recommended:

Store, and charge, in a fireproof container; never in your model.

Charge in a protected area devoid of combustibles. Always stand watch over the charging process. Never leave the charging process unattended.

In the event of damage from crashes, etc, carefully remove to a safe place for at least a half hour to observe. Physically damaged cells could erupt into flame, and, after sufficient time to ensure safety, should be discarded in accordance with the instructions which came with the batteries. Never attempt to charge a cell with physical damage, regardless of how slight.

Always use chargers designed for the specific purpose, preferably having a fixed setting for your particular pack. Many fires occur in using selectable/adjustable chargers improperly set. Never attempt to charge Lithium cells with a charger which is not, specifically, designed for charging Lithium cells. Never use chargers designed for Nickel Cadmium batteries.

Use charging systems that monitor and control the charge state of each cell in the pack. Unbalanced cells can lead to disaster if it permits overcharge of a single cell in the pack. If the batteries show any sign of swelling, discontinue charging, and remove them to a safe place outside as they could erupt into flames.

Most important: NEVER PLUG IN A BATTERY AND LEAVE IT TO CHARGE UNATTENDED OVERNIGHT. Serious fires have resulted from this practice.

Do not attempt to make your own battery packs from individual cells.

These batteries CANNOT be handled and charged casually such as has been the practice for years with other types of batteries. The consequence of this practice can be very serious resulting in major property damage and/ or personal harm

Safety Committee
Academy of Model Aeronautics

5161 E Memorial Drive
Muncie, IN 47302

 

[Gordo]

Yeo, I got that too. One good thing will come out of this. We will get a lot more guys on our side. So far, DB has only really pissed off the Jet guys and the 3D guys. But LiPos are being used by EVERYBODY!!!!!! There are a whole lotta circle flyers about to get a taste of what it's like to do something DB has no interest in!!!

 

[mfeuilly]

SHIT!!! Why the hell does DB have to mess with everything I like. I spent today at an elecric meet. There were lipos as far as the eye could see and lots of 3D. NO ONE DIED, OR FILED A LAWSUIT!!! He should stay the hell out of things he knows NOTHING about.

 

[ChuckAuger]

It looks like Fred Marks of FMA is the driving force behind the AMA statement. He has recently secured the rights to a cell balancing network that can be incorporated into individual packs, thus the wording of "Use charging systems that monitor and control the charge state of each cell in the pack"..there ain't such a dog, except for the balancing system developed by "Suzanne" and recently sold to FMA.

Industry grunt used to squash all users of non-FMA/Kokam packs.

I Know HL sells Kokam, I'll be interested in Billy Hells take on the issue,.

 

[Gordo]

Wow Chuck, that;s a conspiricy if I ever heard one. I'll ask around too, see if the AMA guys see it from that point of view!