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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There is a lot on it the last day or so about 3d flying and clubs. Here are a couple of the message's.

----- Original Message -----
From: "rcaviator" <[email protected]>
To: "SA" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:46 AM
Subject: [SA] 3D flying

This may be an old subject, and if so, I'm sorry for stirring it up. However
so information is needed.

At my club meeting last night I was informed that hovering and touching the
tail on the ground is now a rule violation of the AMA. We were also told
that hovering and torque rolling in general was nearly made a rule violation
as well. To my knowledge, only touching the aircraft in flight is a
violation. This is not a huge deal, but I would like to keep our club's
president on a true course of factual information and not personal agendas.

If someone could send the information on this, or a link to the info I would
appreciate it.

Thanks,
Don Miller

[
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "rcaviator" <[email protected]>
Cc: "SA" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: [SA] 3D flying

The only things that have been outlawed by the AMA safety code is touching
any part of the aircraft other than the landing gear on the ground, and a
person touching the aircraft while in flight. There was never any
intention of banning hovering or 3D flight at all. Personally.. I think
they're good rules.

-Doug
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "IMAC" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [SA] 3D flying

Guys,

We have had this discussion. The basics of this new rule protect the AMA if
you hurt someone or something. They are insulating themselves with this
rule. If you do it then you are on your own come insurance time.

I think the new game should be "how close you can get the tail to the ground
WITHOUT touching, and we fail sometimes" That way if it touches it is
strictly by accident.

--
Bean - 3039
http://bean3drc.home.mchsi.com
>
> Guys I may be a bit of hard-oss (British accent <G>) about this but how
many
> guys at your field can touch the tail? how many are touching the aircraft
in
> a hover? Alright now how many taxi in the pits, or take off cross runway,
or
> land without calling out, or or or...
>
> Give me a break! who cares if its a rule... rules make no difference to
most
> of us so if you want to practice touching the tail, well then when the old
> farts stop taxing in the pits...
>
> Mike
>

From: "Greg DeLuca" <[email protected]>
To: "Fletcher, Richard" <[email protected]>; "IMAC list"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: [SA] 3D flying

We need to find more places like the site in Centerville, MD, that Mike
Brown found. No club. Just a gracious land owner who has a fullscale grass
runway that likes the giant scale aerobatic models. He even cuts the grass
for the models and arranges for the portable toilets for the IMAC contests
that are held there.

Its difficult for the younger guys in a club to maintain control. The
reason is that the older retired guys do the field maintenance and the
younger guys can't afford to spend the time on it. So when the younger guys
try to gain control, the older guys just stop doing the maintenance and
pretty soon the older guys are back in control.

On the bright side, soon we will be the older guys. But what do we do until
then?

-----Original Message-----
From: Fletcher, Richard [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:04 PM
To: IMAC list
Subject: [SA] 3D flying

Problem is that there are many more of them then there are of us. I fly my U
Can Do 3D at a local field which is only 4 miles from my house and spent the
Fall practicing hovering and torque rolls. At the end of the season I was
told that the rules were changed to no 3D whenever another plane is in the
air, which is pretty much all the time. The reason I was given was to
prevent mid airs. The fact is that of the 100 guys in the club, like Mike
said, practically no one can or does 3D flying which is similar to
competitive flying in that the overwhelming majority of club fliers are
sport fliers. I always detected jealousy from many of the members and I
believe that politics was the driving force to outlawing 3D flying. But I
see this as a trend as I hear of more and more clubs that are outlawing 3D
flying, or placing restrictions on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
----- Original Message -----
From: "ray ayestaran" <[email protected]>
To: "IMAC list" <[email protected]>; "Barry Wegman" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [SA] 3D flying

Sorry for the long post, you have struck a sore nerve. I have always had the
utmost courtesy for others, waiting my turn, picking my spots - but this is
not enough. I tried to fly my 3d'r from the far removed heli pad (with no
helis at modelport) an old fart came up grabbed me by the ear and walked me
over to the rule board #7 = all airplanes must land and take off from
runway. I tried to hover 20 feet up far from the runway but I had to walk
out into field close to the plane or I would loose it - rule #8 = pilots
must stand in pilot area behind protective screen at all times. sometimes
it is safer to hover over runway - I have had two airplanes crash into me
while hovering far from the runway but in a turnaround area. a wise old fart
told me that knowbody else can fly when someone is hovering or "may hover"
anywhere near the modelport so get the hell out! so with no friends and no
way possible to fly 3d, I left that club and joined a small group of old
farts flying on a dry lake bed 45 miles from my town after a few months an
old fart ran over and threatened to kill me and destroy my property - I
thought he was going to have a heart attack he said - you just don't get it
we drive all the way out here to get away from that 3d hovering crap so take
it somewhere else. being a member of the ama utah show team It has been fun
and entertaining launching by hand, touching the tail (this is what the
crowd demands) but now this is illegal, so I walked away from the team at
the end 2003 schedule. this year I will fly behind the Kmart next to my
house.
- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Wegman" <[email protected]>
To: "IMAC list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [SA] 3D flying

> At my local field, there are areas that were set aside for helicopters.
> Pilots flying 3D tended to use those areas when the helicopters were not
> present. No one objected to this, at all.
>
> Because the "little" planes are all over the place, it was always
> obvious that hovering increased the chance of a midair. The solution is
> not to ban 3D flying, but to permit it to take place outside the normal
> pattern of the particular field, so to eliminate the risk of a midair.
>
> On the other hand, I have also seen GS 3D pilots go up and start
> hovering right in the middle of the traffic pattern, usually right over
> the runway. This makes it tough on everyone else, particularly those
> new pilots still trying to develop their flying and landings skills with
> a trainer. (Don't go there, Bill!) I'm not suggesting that anyone is
> intentionally offending other users of the field, but some courtesy on
> both sides goes a long way. Most of the problems I've seen at fields
> involves the failure to apply a bit of courtesy towards others.
>
>
> Barry
 

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I have to say........blah...blah...blah.... Same old stuff. What's new eh? Same old stuff.
 

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thats why we need organizations like the Profile Brotherhood and I3D. right now the voice of AMA comes from those "old farts"

I have the same at my field, but fortunately I belong to a small club. most of the guys that I fly with neither have the correct equipment or the knowledge to try any type of 3D flying. they have never seen most of the stuff that I show up with before. a profile fun fly is just a plane that rolls real fast and loops really tight to them.

just think that when they started in the hobby, all they had to learn from were the guys flying cubs and trainer type planes, so thats all they were ever exposed too. a new guy, or especially the "kids" ,what are they attracted to and exposed to now? the guys doing the cool 3D stuff.

I dont get a whole lot of greif at my club (being the only 3D'r) - just some strange looks ever now and then. perhaps it also has helped that most of them have witnessed my learning curve and the mistakes of someone who just goes out there and tries it for himself. from learning to loop and roll on my first day to pattern, IMAC and now Porfile 3D (and E-3D!)

the future of the hobby is here, I think we just have to tolerate the old farts and thier conventional way of thinking untill they retire from the hobby or move on to something else

events like profile brotherhood flyins are what are going to attract the eventual leadership of our AMA.

wow, that was a fun rant - and shit, I forgot that I could swear!

Hubb
 

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When people go elsewhere and take their dues money with them, then it will be an eye opener.

The rules follow the money. It is only a matter of time. 3D is in its infancy. All the new members who are attracted to our club are wanting to 3D.

Do what you want wherever you want to do it. Hell, you can pull over to the side of the road and 3D a profile. You don't need a club, or the AMA.

They will have to accept it due to economics.

It reminds me of the story about the Young Bull and old Bull on the hill looking at a pasture full of cows. Young Bull to old Bull "Lets run down there and f-ck one of those cows." Old Bull to young Bull "Lets walk down and f-ck them all."

Same principal, lets be patient. When more people 3D than don't, all will be ours. It will happen, trust me.

Tork roll it, and they will come.

Jess
 

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That has always been one of my favorite stories...

Show me your belly!!! :eek: :shock:

BBill
 

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I got on the list, and gave a little lecture. I doubt it did any good, but I gave it. I even may have got a few folks to look at I3D.

I also e-mailed the ExVP and District VP with a request to drop the no tail touch rule, and modify the 25 foot rule to make little planes, especially indoor types, better included. 25 feet is a long way when your plane has a 20somethin' inch wingspan.

Anyone joining the list, be warned, there is huge traffic. Way more than the Pro Bro group has. Tons of crap too. There is even a thread about the Mars Rover. Maybe it's OK to tail touch on Mars?

Pro Bros, Save 3D, and I3D need to be very visable now.

Hey Billy, how about approaching RCU for a banner every now and then linking to the Pro Bro site. I think the I3D one may have been free. I think the Bros have supported RCU in many ways, so maybe a favor is in order???
 

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I believe the change in thinking is already happening. It's going to take a bit longer for some areas to change than others. I'm 44 and guarantee that if and when I'm 60 and flying, and hear some old fart complaining about 3D, I'll tell him to sit down, shut up, and quit whining! (Pretty big talk for 44 huh!?)

JW
 

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You are supposed to swear when you talk to those people. It enhances the "outlaw" image, and intimidates them into submission.

:twisted:
 
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