Breaking in a gasser with Coopers Oil

The best juice for your birds.

PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:57 pm

Such a nice eloquent way to tell a guy to STFU, he missed the boat.

You don't leave a guy any wiggle room, do you?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:23 pm

Brian: DA recommends the Amsoil at 100:1. I have no idea why they recommend it so thin...but I have heard it over and over again. I assume they warranty it @ 100:1 if they recommend it at that concentration.



I have no idea why either.
I just read through all the manuals they have on line and it seems interesting to me that they do not recommend a mixture ratio of oil at all after break-in, which is 32:1, or 4oz/gallon of fuel. After break-in, they recommend a synthetic and all the ratio's they recommend is a mixture of oil that the oil company recommends it be used at. Here is a quote of their warranty "not covered"

This warranty does not cover the following:
• Shipping expenses to and from Desert Aircraft for warranty service.
• Damage caused by improper handling, operation, or maintenance.
• Damage caused by a crash.
• Damage caused by using improper fuel or additives.
• Damage incurred during transit to Desert Aircraft. WRAP ENGINE CAREFULLY!!


There is absoutly no talk about oil quantities if you choose not to use one of the recommended brand names of oil. Therefore they can not refuse a warranty issue regardless of what oil you use or the quantities you use it in. They certainly can not void it if you use an oil not on their list at 500:1, if it says that on the oil bottle, now can they? That's being rediculas, but you get my point.

But, I would not run anything in a model airplane engine leaner than 40:1 for petroleum or 50:1 for a high end synthetic.
No oil ever hurt a two stroke gasser by using a richer dose than common sense dictates.


All warranty and manual tell me is that they do not want the responsibility of pinning down a specific number. They have numerous disclamers about voiding waranties in the manual. One of which is plain stupid: using methanol in the fuel. I'm here to tell ya that a large portion of gasoline available in the US has at least 10% ethanol or methanol in there already. So. looks like your warranty is voided just by using most pump gas.

On the DA engines, they look just like Huzquavarna piston/sleeve units and very well could be. Huzquavarna recommends no leaner than 40:1. in a chainsaw, which in my opinion is a little worse envrionment than a model engine but not by much.
Yamaha 100cc racing go kart engine builders specificaly will tell you not to use amsoil or any oil leaner than 40:1 when new or the absolute leanest of 50:1 when broken in, but not highly recommended.

Guys, you can run almost any decent brand name, off the shelf two stroke oil in these model engines. Some oils are better than others, but they will all work and not void your warranty because basicaly there is none regarding oil type or quantities. If it is carbon buildup or oil mess you want to eliminate, well then cutting down on oil quantity is not the answer. Go to a better oil and keep trying ones untill you find one you are well suited to.

The other thing I can not impress enough is why have the flawed logic of cutting back on oil quantity (which is just as important as quality) on a model toy engine that is about 50% overpriced?
Would you only put in 3 quarts of oil in a new Corvette just because it says it can be done on the oil bottle? ....or use 5 quarts if its brand "B", or 7 quarts if its brand "P"?????
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:36 pm

I agree with you. I wouldn't run anything less than 50:1. Especially to get 200 more RPM. Just not worth it.

Honestly...I have seen DA service techs and DA users say use Amsoil 100:1 "according to DA" on RCPoo but I have never heard of it quoted out of their literature....so I don't know exactly where that leaves you warranty wise either.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:10 pm

Honestly...I have seen DA service techs and DA users say use Amsoil 100:1 "according to DA" on RCPoo but I have never heard of it quoted out of their literature....so I don't know exactly where that leaves you warranty wise either.


Here is the link to the DA-50 manual: http://www.desertaircraft.com/manuals/50Manual.pdf

Oh, that's easy... I provide the same engine warranty as amsoil, pennzoil, lawnboy, mobil-1, etc... does: NONE.

There is also a neat little known law out there called the magnussen-moss warranty act. basically it states that oil, filters, replacement parts, spark plugs, etc... can not void a manufacturers warranty if it was designed for the application. In this case, we're talking oil with no specific specs offered to follow. And the only guidelines given in the DA manual are implied as using the oil manufacturers recommended mixture, not the engine manufacturers mixture ratio (because none are given).

I also find it interesting that each of the manuals listed on the DA website have different recommendations, so there is little continuity in DA guidence for oil recommendations. The only constants between the manuals seem to be lawn boy and amsoil as two brand names. But also mentioned is ryobi, pennzoil, bel-ray, mobil-1, and a couple others, in some but not all, go figure?

I agree with you. I wouldn't run anything less than 50:1. Especially to get 200 more RPM. Just not worth it.


I seriously doubt there is 200 rpm available between 50:1 and 100:1, on the same oil. I certainly have not seen it, all other things being equal. You might find a significant difference going from 16:1 to 50:1 but after that, the law of diminishing returns does not yield enough to make it worth while.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:41 pm

Fuelman wrote:• Damage caused by using improper fuel or additives.


Wouldn't that be their universal catch-all?

If you used too little oil or the wrong oil they could simply claim "improper fuel" -- since we're dealing with premix here.

I use Brian's oil at 40:1 in my DL50. No carbon that I can see and plenty of power.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:54 am

xjet wrote:
Fuelman wrote:• Damage caused by using improper fuel or additives.


Wouldn't that be their universal catch-all?

I don't think it would hold...it says in b/w in their manual to use Amsoil 100:1 mixed at 100:1.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:05 pm

I just got my new DL and it says to run 30:1.... I'm no gasser expert but this seems a bit oily?

Any advice?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:19 pm

I just got my new DL and it says to run 30:1.... I'm no gasser expert but this seems a bit oily?

Any advice?


My old old homelite XL-12 chainsaw (early 1960's) recommended the mixture be at 16:1 for the first couple gallons, and then 20:1 after that.
Our old ski-doo 440 Tn'T recommended the same thing, 20:1

I know with modern lubricants that once things are broken in, those numbers can certainly be leaned out a bit, I would think at least to 32:1.

Now, with modern metalurgy and cnc consistant tight tolerances (we hope), even the DA recommends 32:1 for the first couple of gallons, which is basically the same as 30:1 which is common in metric countries.
Once some time is on it, I see no reason to take it out to 40:1 or so.

16:1 is 8oz/gal (6.25% oil)
20:1 is 6.4 oz/gal (or 1 quart per 5 gallons)
25:1 is 5.1oz/gal
32:1 is only 4oz of oil -per gallon, still not a lot of oil. (less 3.2% oil)
40:1 is 3.2oz/gallon
50:1 is 2.5oz/gal (1.9% oil)
60:1 is 2.1 oz/gal
64:1 is 2oz/gal (1.5% oil)
75:1 is 1.7oz/gal
100:1 is 1.28 oz/gal (1% oil)

I reasonably think that anywhere in the 32:1 to 50:1 mixture range with a modern gas two stroke engine is a pretty safe place to be. During the first gallon or two, I would always err to the rich oil mixture side and as it gets time on it, I would certainly lean my stuff out to 40:1, or even 50:1 if the instructions called for it. Anything leaner than that on any lubricant I think is doing the engine a dis-service.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:27 pm

Brian, I for one would like to thank you for the time and effort you put into teaching us lesser educated ones about oil and other neat shit.

It seems like this subject has been gone over several times and still never gets old.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:31 am

Yeah, at $300 to $400 a pop, I can't afford to burn one up on a learning curve, so I appreciate the input as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:50 am

I'm a little late joining this thread, but better late than never right!?

I've been running Brian's oil at 50:1 in my DA 150 for a long time now and I like it alot better than the Amsoil at 100:1. Like others have said, the engine actually appeared to be shedding carbon during the first few gallons. Since then it's been running like a champ. I've probably got 50 gallons of fuel through it on his oil.

I also broke in an EVO 150 on his oil at 32:1. I ran about 5 gallons through it, then switched to 50:1. Once again, no problems whatsoever!

I know this has been said before, but alot of people think that if they use Lawnboy for oil that their rings will seat much faster. I don't really buy into that. The fastest and best way to break in a ringed engine is to fly the freaking thing!! Go out and practice IMAC style maneuvers. That's the best way to load/unload the engine and vary the RPM without having to worry about cooling issues.

For example, there's a full-scale Hawker Sea Fury based here in Memphis. I was at the airport when they did the test flight after hanging a freshly rebuilt Wright R-3350 on the nose. That's an 18 cylinder, 3500 horsepower, quarter million dollar, radial engine. Do you know how the engine builder told them to break it in? He told them to fly it at as high a power setting oil temp and airspeed would permit. It's pretty simple, rings seat best when the engine is loaded up.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:54 am

I'll put it this way.

Damn it's nice to meet someone who actually knows what the fuck he's talking about and doesn't mind sharing with the rest of us.
An old graybeard told me long ago,snarl while your ridin it pearks the ears of the lesser species.
(Stolen from a brother)

Linda 5/21/1951 to 5/1/2005 My love forever.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:19 pm

Agreed. :rockoncool:
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:47 am

So where can we buy this oil at? I would like to try it out. I live a little South of Knoxville , Tn.

I went to the Web site and their was no mention of the 2 cycle premix oil.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:22 am

If you can hang out until May Fuelman usually makes it to the Memphis Pro-Bro event and always has some with him.
Otherwise I'm betting you will have to sweet talk him into shipping it to you.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:48 am

He'll ship it,, Send him some $$$$
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:46 pm

Anyone have any idea how to get a hold of Brian and get some of his oil for gassers. The S&W Hobby site doesen't list it. Berwelyn Bill are you still using it?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:31 pm

He's changed business'. He no longer handles the oil. There's a thread on here that explains that.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:35 pm

I remember Brian saying that he still could get the Bro's oil if they needed it. But I don't know how to get ahold of him.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:45 pm

You want S&W phone #610-252-2024 I think ,,it's in yellow on the label and hard to see.... It's called Avenger,,, You prolly already know all this :lol:
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