fuel question for fuel man

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fuel question for fuel man

PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:34 pm

My dad and I just bought a couple cases of powermaster 15% helicopter synthetic fuel.

we both started using it on our plane motors.....between saitos, os, webras, and thunder tigers.

My dad wanted to break in a new magnum 4 stroke and read in the instructions for break in to not use synthetic fuels in these engines.....

That got us to wondering if it was safe to use in all our engines?

It states that the reason it should not be used is because the engines need the castor......

Heres the link to the fuel......

http://www.powermasterfuels.com/product ... opter.html
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:22 pm

I won't presume to answer for Fuelman but I'd certainly favor a little castor in your brew.

I don't know of any model engines that don't benefit from just a little castor in their fuel.

In a 4-stroke the castor helps maintain a decent oil film on the camshaft/lifter interface and reduce wear in this critical area.

When castor percentages are low enough (2%-3% of the total fuel) then you see none of the bad effects (carbon/varnish) normally associated with this oil.

I did run an engine *real* hard and extra lean with a straight synth blend of Brian's oil and it didn't seem to show any signs of wear after two tanks but I still prefer the safety-net that castor can provide.

Grab yourself a bottle of SIG Castor or Klotz Benol and put enough in your fuel to constitute 2%-3% by volume.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:26 pm

The engines do not need castor, However I can tell you I use castor fuel to break-in all my engines except my Saitos. Specifically Magnum engines, And every magnum I have had has run perfect.

Go with the manual, 10% castor for break-in, but switch to synthetic after a gallon.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:16 pm

xjet wrote:I won't presume to answer for Fuelman but I'd certainly favor a little castor in your brew.

I don't know of any model engines that don't benefit from just a little castor in their fuel.

In a 4-stroke the castor helps maintain a decent oil film on the camshaft/lifter interface and reduce wear in this critical area.

When castor percentages are low enough (2%-3% of the total fuel) then you see none of the bad effects (carbon/varnish) normally associated with this oil.

I did run an engine *real* hard and extra lean with a straight synth blend of Brian's oil and it didn't seem to show any signs of wear after two tanks but I still prefer the safety-net that castor can provide.

Grab yourself a bottle of SIG Castor or Klotz Benol and put enough in your fuel to constitute 2%-3% by volume.


do you think adding the oil to the current fuel will make it too rich? I was thinking we might be able to do something like that but was also thinking if it already had 20% synthetic oil that adding another 3% might make it rather rich?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:55 pm

You're most likely at 18% with the Cool Power. Add another 4oz of castor to the gallon and you're around 20.5% and 3% castor. Perfect.

I used to run this mixture in one of my nastiest boat motors. It would get very tempermental at 18%, but at 20-22% it was just fine.

Good luck,


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:57 pm

ChrisAttebery wrote:You're most likely at 18% with the Cool Power. Add another 4oz of castor to the gallon and you're around 20.5% and 3% castor. Perfect.

I used to run this mixture in one of my nastiest boat motors. It would get very tempermental at 18%, but at 20-22% it was just fine.

Good luck,


Chris


well im pretty sure the box said it was 20 percent synthetic...ill have to double check it to make sure......We got like 10 gallons on a good deal and didnt even think twice about it then he read that in the manual and I was thinking crap weve always had fuels with castor in them so I was hoping we arent stuck with some fuel that isnt good for our engines
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:14 am

The PowerMaster YS20/20 Synthetic.... has castor in it....despite what the label says.
PS, I'll sell you a pint of Sig castor if you want to -- delivered to HoBro. I have too much. I don't know what Sigs price is but I sell it to you for $6.00 delivered in their pint container. If you need some that is, to spike your fuel.
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Re: fuel question for fuel man

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:37 am

p3ripperfw wrote:My dad and I just bought a couple cases of powermaster 15% helicopter synthetic fuel.

we both started using it on our plane motors.....between saitos, os, webras, and thunder tigers.

My dad wanted to break in a new magnum 4 stroke and read in the instructions for break in to not use synthetic fuels in these engines.....

That got us to wondering if it was safe to use in all our engines?

It states that the reason it should not be used is because the engines need the castor......

Heres the link to the fuel......

http://www.powermasterfuels.com/product ... opter.html



P3,
That fuel has 18% in it, trust me.
I'm with the castor crowd, I like at least some castor in most of my fuel that I run for myself. Like XJet said, the castor promotes a nice film of extreme pressure lubricant to the cam and lifter area and also helps prevent corrosion because of the nature of castor. If you are so inclined, do not be afraid to add about 4 ounces of castor to the existing fuel (per gallon). That will yield you aprox 3% in the blend and that small amount of castor is not enough to gum anything up even over long term use.

Small amounts of castor will never hurt any engine, including Saito's or YS's. To put it bluntly, I run whatever I have laying around in almost all my engines and just tune accordingly. Breaking in your new Magnum will turn out just fine by using the fuel you mention with a bit of castor added.

If you have Blendzall castor available in motorcycle shops near you, use that, its really good stuff. Blendzall for some reason is the cleanest running castor based lube I've ever used but then again it has about 7 different additives in there including some castor derivitaves to make it that way, I like the stuff better than Klotz, but thats my opinion. Sig castor is Klotz BeNol without the fragrance and red dye.

Or, if you want, I can send you a quart of pure castor, but with the shippintg it will definatly be less costly if you get it localy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:42 am

3d-aholic wrote:The PowerMaster YS20/20 Synthetic.... has castor in it....despite what the label says.
PS, I'll sell you a pint of Sig castor if you want to -- delivered to HoBro. I have too much. I don't know what Sigs price is but I sell it to you for $6.00 delivered in their pint container. If you need some that is, to spike your fuel.


Last time I checked their 20/20 blend, there was no castor in it.

When Don Nix owned the company the "YS 20/20" was just the name of a blend and it had less than 20% oil in it. I know Wendell and he is an honest man and seriously doubt he is following Don Nix's misleading practices.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:49 am

Fuelman wrote:Last time I checked their 20/20 blend, there was no castor in it.

When Don Nix owned the company the "YS 20/20" was just the name of a blend and it had less than 20% oil in it. I know Wendell and he is an honest man and seriously doubt he is following Don Nix's misleading practices.


Oh ok, I didn't know they changed owners somewhere along the lines...perhaps they have changed. When did this happen?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:58 am

3d-aholic wrote:
Fuelman wrote:Last time I checked their 20/20 blend, there was no castor in it.

When Don Nix owned the company the "YS 20/20" was just the name of a blend and it had less than 20% oil in it. I know Wendell and he is an honest man and seriously doubt he is following Don Nix's misleading practices.


Oh ok, I didn't know they changed owners somewhere along the lines...perhaps they have changed. When did this happen?


If I'm not mistaken, Don sold out to Shirly and Wendell Hammond about 8 or so years ago, maybe a bit longer than that.

I know Wendell personally and he is a real good guy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:52 am

cool thanks for all the response...Ill just ad some castor! Glad we are able to use this stuff as we got a good deal on it. Ill Pick some castor up today!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:51 pm

Fuelman, will adding a bit of castor to YS 20/20 cause any gumming or sticking problems with YS regulators?

Thanks,

JW
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:27 pm

Fuelman

I checked at http://www.blendzall.com/ for castor. There are several products listed, some for 2-stroke and some for 4-stroke. Which one would you recommend?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:29 pm

Fuelman wrote:
3d-aholic wrote:The PowerMaster YS20/20 Synthetic.... has castor in it....despite what the label says.
PS, I'll sell you a pint of Sig castor if you want to -- delivered to HoBro. I have too much. I don't know what Sigs price is but I sell it to you for $6.00 delivered in their pint container. If you need some that is, to spike your fuel.


Last time I checked their 20/20 blend, there was no castor in it.

When Don Nix owned the company the "YS 20/20" was just the name of a blend and it had less than 20% oil in it. I know Wendell and he is an honest man and seriously doubt he is following Don Nix's misleading practices.
I hope not Don Nix was/is a lying crook :twisted: AMA safty ASS last I heard
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:43 pm

John Wells wrote:Fuelman, will adding a bit of castor to YS 20/20 cause any gumming or sticking problems with YS regulators?

Thanks,

JW


Dave Shadel use to say that 2 or 3% castor would not be a problem for YS motors.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:39 pm

I've been running Coopers 20% Plus that I added 2.5 vol% Klotz Benol castor to in my YS 1.10 for some time now with good results. :tu:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:09 am

As for the Blendzall castor that works great in glow fuel, the #460 is the one I was reffering to.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:23 am

John Wells wrote:Fuelman, will adding a bit of castor to YS 20/20 cause any gumming or sticking problems with YS regulators?

Thanks,

JW


JW,
As soon as you get over about 4% by volume castor in a YS, it can cause some sticking problems in the regulator when the engine sits in storage for long periods of time.

If you are running an engine every couple of days, or daily, then that much castor has little regulator gumming effect in the YS's. I've always maintained that no more than 4% castor in any 4 stroke when used on a regular basis.

Tuning is the big issue in gumming up 4 stroke exhaust valves and rings when using moderate amounts of castor in the fuel. If there is more than 4% castor in the blend you should take care not to tune for every last rpm or lean. Normal tuning where you're 300-400 rpms rich (with lower castor contents, 3-4%), when the tank is below half full is fine and you'll probably never see a stuck valve or ring due to castor crud.

In reality, any modern ABC type engine is fully lubricated and well protected when 3%-4% castor is used in the fuel assuming the remaining synthetic oil is of a high quality. This makes it easy if you choose to use one fuel for all your engines (assuming the nitro content is suitable for all).

Hope this helps.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:36 am

I hope not Don Nix was/is a lying crook AMA safty ASS last I heard


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I never said he was a crook, I was just refering to his practice of actually naming that fuel blend with what seemed to be disclosure of contents.

Byrons does the same thing. Their blends that state the contents are actually measured by weight, not volume. 30% nitro by weight is a LOT less nitro than 30% by volume. Doing the math of specific gravities, 30% by weight equals around 23% by volume of nitro. 20% by weight is around 16% by volume, 15% by weight is around 11.5% by volume, etc.... I think that is equally misleanding, but not illegal. Since Byrons is the only manufacturer that blends by weight, everybodey else uses volumetric measurement, they have done some brilliant marketing to charge the same and actually put less of the expensive stuff in the jug.

I'm not bashing Don, or Powermaster or Byrons. If they had a bad product, they would have been out of business a long time ago, just pointing out some observations.
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