The Sbach65 and the PhoenixRC flight simulator

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The Sbach65 and the PhoenixRC flight simulator

PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:39 am

In an effort to get viable sim time during the winter I took a laptop running PhoenixRC and the Sbach55 out to the flying field last fall to try to get a plane on the sim matched as close as possible to the real Sb55. I would put a flight on the plane then try it on the sim changing the values to what I thought would duplicate the flight characteristics. I did this over and over again for the better part of an afternoon until I used up all the batteries I had. It was a sometimes frustrating process as some of the values that are put in PhoenixRC make no real world sense. Also many of them are linked together so changing one value also changes the the flight characteristics determined by another value. For example the way an aircraft rolls is determined by;

Roll inertial
Roll damping
Wing rock tendancy
Thrust torque
Propeller airflow speed
Aileron travel
Aileron area
Aileron length

Also there seems to be a set of hardcore values that are imbedded in each of the aircrafts flight characteristics that cannot be changed. Changing all of the values for one aircraft to that of another will not make the planes fly the same.

I started with a plane that was close to that of the Sb55, the Max3D and worked from that, changing the numbers trying to get it to fly the same. Well, I was not completely successful. I got it fairly close but not enough that I was completely satisfied with it.

After I got the Sb65 flying I figured I would try it again. Well for whatever reason I got it almost right on without a lot of effort. It is not perfect but then I do not think any sim is, but it is a lot closer to the real thing than a lot of the sim models I have tried.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:40 am

If you have not done this before here is how to do it;

Load in the Max 3D or Max 3D Nightfly then select airplane/edit from the pull down menu. Click on change units and select Imperial. Type Sbach65 in the new variant name box. Change the values to the ones in the next post, be careful of the decimal point and note that the the frontal cg is a minus value. Click on the finished box and you are good to go.

These values will also work quite well using the Funtana90 as a base model.

The sim version I used was 2.0n, version 2.5 is out now and I do not know if some of the internal flight dynamics have been changed or not so how these values will work on any version above that of 2.0 I cannot say.

Have fun.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:42 am

PHOENIX R/C INPUT PARAMETERS
Sbach3D-65

Airframe

Weight – 8.2
Frontal CG - -1.25
Vertical CG - 0
Yaw Inertia - .2
Pitch Inertia - .2
Roll Inertia - .15
Frontal Drag Area - .54
Lateral Drag area – 2.16
Vertical Drag Area – 1.62
Yaw Damping - 2
Pitch Damping - 2
Roll Damping - .1
Wing Rock Tendency - .1
Robustness - 200
Max Flight Time - 0


Engine & Servos

Min Throttle - 0
Max Throttle - 1
Engine Idle - 5
Throttle Profile - 1
Throttle Response - 2 – 1.9


Thrust

Thrust/Weight Ratio – 2.2
Thrust Velocity Reduct - .2
Forward Thrust Distance - 1.25
Vertical Thrust Distance - 0
Lateral Thrust Distance - 0
Thrust Torque - 75
Thrust Offset Angle - 0
Thrust Offset Angle - 0
Prop Airflow Speed – 13.2
Tail Wash Influence - 80
Airfoil Wash Influence - 60
Engine Failure - 0


Main Wing

Wingspan – 5.42
Inner Chord – 1.95
Outer Chord – 1.28
Dihederal - 0
Wing Sweep - 4
Wing Airfoil Root - Funfly
Wing Root Incidence - 0
Wing Airfoil Tip - Funfly
Wing Tip Incidence - 0
Flaps Lift Coeff - 0
Flaps Drag Coeff - 0
Airbrake Lift Coeff - 0
Airbrake Drag Coeff - 0


Control Surfaces

Lateral Fuse Lift – 2.1
Vertical Fuse Lift - .2
Tail Section Distance – 4.7
Min Aileron Travel - 45
Max Aileron Travel - 45
Aileron Length - 100
Aileron Chord - .64
Stab Area – 3.24
Stab incidence - 0
Stab Airfoil - Flat
Elevator Travel - 55
Elevator Area – 2.9
Fin Area – 1.14
Fin Height - .1
Fin Airfoil - Flat
Rudder Travel - 50
Rudder Area – 1.62
Flap Travel - 0


Landing Gear

Frontal Gear Friction - .005
Lateral Gear friction - .2
Gear Spring - 0
Guide Wheel Travel - 25
Gear Robustness - 200
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:49 am

Wow, Ron! That's a lot of great info. I may try to find something like the SBach in RF4.5 and try to translate the data to it. Thanks!!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:17 am

Yes yes!! Sbachs for R4.5 :D:D:D
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:44 am

+3 :lol:

Great Boo, what's the time diff btw you and Pacific Coast?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:53 am

Hmm, 9 hours I thinnk here (GMT+1) its 17:50 Wednesday afternoon now so Pacific(-8?) should be like 08:50 early morning i would guess.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:55 am

Sorry for hijack Triflyer,

When it's 9-12 evening here it's 6-9 morning there? Hmmm....

Can you imagine an Ironman of nothing but Sbach's?! :rockon:
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:03 pm

Nitro J. wrote:Sorry for hijack Triflyer,

When it's 9-12 evening here it's 6-9 morning there? Hmmm....

Can you imagine an Ironman of nothing but Sbach's?! :rockon:


Yep, that sounds about right.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:31 pm

no no realflight 3.5!! 3.5!! Pleeeaassee!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:37 pm

Zamfir wrote:no no realflight 3.5!! 3.5!! Pleeeaassee!


Sssshhh!! Silence wicked 3.5:er! :P
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:38 pm

Usually 3.5 planes work quite well on 4.5...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:50 pm

Zamfir wrote:no no realflight 3.5!! 3.5!! Pleeeaassee!


Yesss 3.5 please!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:27 pm

Berwyn Bill wrote:Wow, Ron! That's a lot of great info. I may try to find something like the SBach in RF4.5 and try to translate the data to it. Thanks!!




Thanks Bill, but I doubt there is any correlation between the values in PoenixRc and Real Flight. Hell, there is no correlation between the values in Phoenix and the real world. The only values that have anything to do with the actual Sb65 is the weight and wing dementions, almost all the other values were determined by experimentation. Most of the values are rather obtuse with no real world correlation at all. Some values work backward (low value = large effect) and many have no value (fin area = 0). I expect this is due to the way calculations are made internally.
I have stuck with Phoenix because I like the flight dynamics and despite the weird values once I caught on to it I can adjust it pretty much the way I want it.

It would be real nice if the sims (any of them) would accept real world values and react accordingly, then we could use the sim as an aircraft development tool. I would really like that.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:06 pm

TriFlyer3D wrote:It would be real nice if the sims (any of them) would accept real world values and react accordingly, then we could use the sim as an aircraft development tool. I would really like that.


What!! A flight sim actually simulating real life? Naw, will never happen.......
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:01 am

So...is what you are saying is that I need to send you my copy of RF 3.5 for you to be able to make an Sbach 65 model?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:55 am

Thanks Zam but I already have RF3.5 and 4.0 and AFPD. RF4 will not run on my computer (I really need to upgrade to a new one) I gave 3.5 to a friend and AFPD went in the trash.

I am really not trying to start another ‘mine is better than yours’ that we are so fond of here. It is just that after trying them all I liked the flight dynamics of Phoenix better and found it easier to change and adjust the flying qualities once I learned its idiosyncrasies.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:14 pm

I'll take your copy of RF 3.5 8)
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Re: The Sbach65 and the PhoenixRC flight simulator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:44 pm

OH MY :D I put this on my sim today and...WOW! If this is what I have to look forward to when I get my SBach done then YES profiles are for me. :mrgreen: If your a newbie and have a Phoenix sim give this setup a try, you won't be sorry.
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Re: The Sbach65 and the PhoenixRC flight simulator

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:15 pm

Anyone have a setup for version 5?
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